Edmonton Social Planning Council - Child poverty in Alberta, CBC Radio Interview

Child poverty in Alberta, CBC Radio Interview

November 24, 2004

This is a transcript of an interview between CBC Radio’s Ron Wilson (host of Edmonton AM, heard Monday to Friday 6-9am on CBC Radio One in the Edmonton area) and ESPC Executive Director Nicola Fairbrother. The interview occurred on November 24, 2004, the anniversary of the federal all party resolution to end child poverty.

Ron Wilson: It was in 1989 that the House of Commons passed a unanimous resolution calling for the end of child poverty in our country by the year 2000. The deadline has come and gone. Today a lobby group called Campaign 2000 releases their annual report card on child poverty. It shows there are still more than one million children in this country living below the poverty line, almost 100,000 of them here in Alberta.

Nicola Fairbrother is Executive Director of the Edmonton Social Planning Council, a member of Campaign 2000.

Ms. Fairbrother good-morning!

Nicola Fairbrother: Good morning!

RW:      It’s difficult not to see this as a very bleak, almost a blight on our country. Do you see anything in these numbers that provides a glimmer of hope?

NF:       Well nationally speaking unfortunately we saw in 2002 after years of small and moderate declines in child poverty, there was a spike again. So what it tells us is that nationally we’re not doing better. It may be that we’re starting to see in Canada a trend towards doing worse in addressing child poverty again.

RW:      And here in Alberta?

NF:       In Alberta we see, considering that we’re a debt-free province, a province with the sorts of resources to really address these kinds of issues, we see about 98,000 children in Alberta who are living in families whose income falls below the low income cut-offs. So it’s not good for kids in Alberta at the moment.

RW:      Does that represent an improvement or in fact a decline?

NF:       What we see actually, is, over time in Alberta, less families and children living in poverty but the depth of poverty for those families seems to be increasing. So what that means is we have kids who are living in families, most of those families are families that work, and they’re toiling away but they’re getting farther behind.

RW:      So the have-nots, in fact their circumstances are actually worsening not improving?

NF:       That’s the trend that we seem to be seeing.

RW:      And as you say in most of these cases these are families that are working, but clearly working at jobs that are simply not paying enough?

NF:       Correct. There seems to be this perception of course among most Canadians that when we talk about poorer families we’re talking about families on social assistance programs. But the reality is that the majority of them work and the majority of them working are working full-time.

RW:      Is there nothing in our social policy framework either provincially or nationally that’s having an impact?

NF:       Well, in some provinces and federally we’ve seen some increases in the child benefit system, the child tax credit and the national child benefit supplement, but from the position of Campaign 2000 and the Edmonton Social Planning Council that rate needs to be increased to a maximum benefit of $4,900 per child per year, and it’s not that high at the moment.

RW:      In the recent provincial election campaign we heard precious little on this issue. I don’t think I heard much of a debate on increasing the minimum wage, there were exceptions to that as it is part of the New Democratic Party platform, and I think the Liberals also spoke about the need to increase the minimum wage in this province. But it wasn’t anything that seized any of the leaders during the debate and it wasn’t something you heard much during the campaign.

NF:       Well I can tell you that I think that Canadians and Albertans believe there is a social safety net that’s effective, we’re not living in a developing country, we don’t see children and families on the street, there’s this perception that individuals are in fact assisted. And the trouble with that is there’s not a comprehensive system of benefits and supports in place for individuals and their children who live in low income to ensure that we lift people up with us. So it’s not on the radar; it isn’t part of the public lexicon. People generally perceive that our governments address the needs of those who are poor. The politicians don’t have to debate it publicly given that no one is questioning them about it terribly regularly.

RW:      What do you think we need to do then both here in Alberta and on a national level to either increase our awareness of it, make us more familiar with the actual reality, and, at the end of the day do something?

NF:       Well I think that organizations like Campaign 2000 and the Edmonton Social Planning Council and other social justice groups have a really significant job in front of them in terms of trying to create a dialogue about this in our communities. And actually government has an obligation to be educating the public around these sorts of issues as well.

The solutions … the perception would be that the solutions are overwhelming. But we’re not talking about the types of solutions that would be hugely problematic. We’re talking about the federal government and the provincial governments reinvesting in affordable housing, we’re talking about federal and provincial governments committing to developing social policy that is inclusive, that looks to the needs of all Canadians, all Albertans, we’re talking about a universally acceptable system of child care.

RW:      There was a call here in both the civic and provincial elections from a number of quarters to reinvest in affordable housing, Stephen Mandell made it part of his platform for the mayor’s chair here in Edmonton in fact, and it was also part of the provincial election campaign as well. So perhaps we might see some movement on that front.

NF:       Which after a decade of decline would be delightful from the perspective of people who are involved in supporting individuals who live with low income. It’s also about jobs, real jobs, sustainable jobs at wages that allow you to sustain yourself over time. And you commented about our minimum wage. Our minimum age doesn’t allow you to work full-time and get above the poverty line.

RW:      Well, Nicola Fairbrother I appreciate your insights on this. Thank you.

NF:       Okay thanks very much.